tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post8635736711340745844..comments2024-01-22T09:45:29.790+01:00Comments on Racing Rules of Sailing - Look to Windward: Kleine Sneekweek 2008 ScoringJoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10346870418220762709noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-70167597222400517402008-05-13T20:43:00.000+02:002008-05-13T20:43:00.000+02:00I received a mail from a fellow judge who looked u...I received a mail from a fellow judge who looked up Appendix A in previous Rule-books ( Thanks Leo Pieter)<BR/><BR/>From RRoS '97:<BR/>A1.5 NUMBERING OF RACES<BR/>Races shall be numbered sequentially in the order of completion.<BR/><BR/>A2.3 TIES<BR/>When there is a tie in series points between two or more boats, the tie will be broken in favor of the boat with the most first places, or, if the tie remains, the most second places, or lower places if necessary, using only the scores for each boat that count for her series score. When a tie still remains, it will be broken in favor of the boat with the best score in the last race in which the tied boats raced and scored differently, using only the scores for each boat that count for her series score...<BR/><BR/>In light of Q&A 2008-001 I think we can put this one to bed.Joshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346870418220762709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-55472078966092546812008-05-10T06:35:00.000+02:002008-05-10T06:35:00.000+02:00I agree with Anonymous & Mike BThe rule should be ...I agree with Anonymous & Mike B<BR/>The rule should be interpreted as 'last SAILED race'Joshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346870418220762709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-16226667802795495572008-05-08T19:26:00.000+02:002008-05-08T19:26:00.000+02:00Received by E-mail from Mike B:Pampus 980 Redress ...Received by E-mail from Mike B:<BR/>Pampus 980 Redress request.<BR/><BR/>Facts <BR/>Races were held in the order 1,2,3,5,4.<BR/>The last race sailed was 4.<BR/>Pampus 900 and 980 had race scores that 8.1 failed to break.<BR/>Nothing in the sailing instructions specified the order of races.<BR/>900 won r5 sailed in the morning<BR/>980 won r4 sailed after r5<BR/><BR/>Rules applicable<BR/>8.2 the scores were to be broken by the results of the last race. The last race was race 4 and thus 980 is to be scored first and 900 second.<BR/><BR/>What is the last race is a matter of fact, and here the last race sailed was race 4 held over from the day before.<BR/><BR/>Note: I do not have my papers here but I believe there was a recent case / interpretation on order of races, where a race committee did not hold one race so as not to invoke the black flag consequences and commenced with the next race number.<BR/><BR/>Redress wording omittedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-69408596439332589032008-05-05T19:48:00.000+02:002008-05-05T19:48:00.000+02:00We based our decision on why the rule was written ...We based our decision on why the rule was written this way.<BR/><BR/>If in a series two boats have the same score, they can base there tactics on that, but only in the last sailed race. Only then is clear that all other results will tie them.<BR/><BR/>Because of the decision of the RC to sail race 4 after race 5, race 4 should be used to award the final standing.<BR/><BR/>To prevent this kind of problem, we advised the RC in future to schedule races in order. Sail the abandoned race before the next one, instead of what happened.Joshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346870418220762709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-26426484780087794692008-05-05T19:29:00.000+02:002008-05-05T19:29:00.000+02:00As "robert" observed, the rule says, "they shall b...As "robert" observed, the rule says, "they shall be ranked in order of their scores in the last race." I think in this regatta, the last race was "Race 4", and not Race 5. No matter what you call it, "Race 5" was not the "last race" of the regatta. And in my opinion, it doesn't matter what you call them (e.g., it would not matter if you call the first race "Race 5", then "Race 4" etc....) The last race is the one that ends the regatta, in this case, that was "Race 4."<BR/><BR/>I think the reasoning for the rule supports this, which is to permit boats which are tied or close on points to focus on each other in the final race of a regatta. Counting the second to last race ("Race 5") as the "last race" undermines this goal.<BR/><BR/>GKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-76215324705334916682008-05-05T18:42:00.000+02:002008-05-05T18:42:00.000+02:00Jos It is not that I have not been paying attenti...Jos <BR/>It is not that I have not been paying attention to your blog but busy rewriting decisions from the wayfarer web site and other rule items.<BR/> <BR/>Here is my thinking on this latest post. <BR/>Facts: <BR/>Rc postpones race 4 on Sat. <BR/>Rc post notice to competitors " Postponed race 4 to be sailed after race 5" <BR/>P900 series results are…… <BR/>P980 series results are ……. <BR/>SI allowed 1 drop race if 5 races or more were completed <BR/>RC scored P900 first and P980 second in the series <BR/><BR/>Conclusion: <BR/>There was no improper action or omission of the race committee in scoring P980 in second place. RRS A8.2, 62.1(a) <BR/>Decision <BR/><BR/>Redress is denied <BR/><BR/>In my logic is the found in A8.2 where it says " they shall be ranked in order of their scores in the last race." There is no discussion or use of the word "sailed".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-73491878025482573122008-05-05T18:40:00.000+02:002008-05-05T18:40:00.000+02:00On the issue, it seems to me that the jury first h...On the issue, it seems to me that the jury first have to be sure that the change of schedule was valid. I have not checked but there is a case, perhaps only a GBR one, which says that races take their natural order unless validly changed. Therefore the notice changing the order has to be valid. Therefore the jury must check it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-60586174494649390132008-05-05T09:36:00.000+02:002008-05-05T09:36:00.000+02:00The rule says: ... the best score in the last race...The rule says: ... the best score in the last race in which the tied boats raced ... Not the last race of the program.Adriaan Pelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02387752341037177297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-15097844391644510702008-05-05T02:56:00.000+02:002008-05-05T02:56:00.000+02:00Just a shot...Q&A 07-007 says that the race number...Just a shot...<BR/><BR/>Q&A 07-007 says that the race numbering should be done in a way that is easiest to comprehend for competitors, media and public.<BR/><BR/>Race 4 is to be sailed at a later time due to postponment.<BR/><BR/>As I see it, Race 4 has a "slot" before the Race 5, so the last race, according to scores, is Race 5.Andražhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02227730782637834707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-149921845732887012008-05-04T23:37:00.000+02:002008-05-04T23:37:00.000+02:00Nothing in the SIsRacing was abandoned with AP ove...Nothing in the SIs<BR/>Racing was abandoned with AP over A<BR/>The Notice #6, published at 08:30 AM, said that Race 4 would be sailed directly after Race 5.Joshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346870418220762709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9170261917486213112.post-29153148183669761522008-05-04T23:34:00.000+02:002008-05-04T23:34:00.000+02:00A question. What did the SIs say about when aband...A question. What did the SIs say about when abandoned races were to be sailed and what did the notice putting race 4 to the end of the regatta say?<BR/><BR/>DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com