After yesterdays learning experience we did discuss the issue some more. There were complications in format, boat and crew issues, interference and of course, hearings on the water. But on the instigation of my fellow umpires I’d better stick to the rules.
Sitting on the terrace of “ElMovenshiss” with two different music sources is a bit distracting, but if I concentrate hard enough I might be able to post a valid question.
Again about penalties. The rule book says you can only give a penalty – or a green flag for that matter – if there’s also a sound signal.
And also; The failure to display or not display a flag has no influence on the number of outstanding penalties. If you miss a boat taken a penalty, the fact that you did not take down the flag has no standing. The boat has a valid case if she can somehow show that she took the penalty. She might need to go to a hearing and ‘convince’ the judges, but if she does, the penalty is taken.
I do agree it’s confusing to the sailors if you first take a flag down and then, after deciding that it should be a red flag penalty, put the flag back up again (including the offset blue flag), but that does not mean it is a second penalty, in my opinion. Not if there’s no sound signal together with the flag.
In other words, if you forget your whistle, you’d better know how to do it some other way, otherwise you cannot give any penalties.
Putting up a flag alone is NOT sufficient.
What do you think?
I think you are spending too much time trying to deal with matters that are hardly, if ever, a problem! It is easy to make a sound signal by just shouting or clapping your hands if necessary.
ReplyDeleteThe big problem with umpiring continues to be boat driving and boat positioning. Without being in the right place an umpire cannot make the right decision whether you have a whistle or not.
Your sentence "I do agree it’s confusing to the sailors if you first take a flag down and then, after deciding that it should be a red flag penalty, put the flag back up again (including the offset blue flag), but that does not mean it is a second penalty, in my opinion." is confusing to me. Why would you take the penalty flag down? it should still be displayed, (or if using the old system, be replaced by a shape. A sound signal needs to be made with the red flag does it not?
As usual, if you live strictly by the rules you're absolutely right. However, I have to agree with Anonymous a little as well. In practice, I think, 99% of the sailors will not see it this way and just take it as a penalty.
ReplyDeleteThis is a problem with the red flag.
ReplyDeleteTo digress C5.5 says what the signal is if a penalty is completed. There is nothing that says the signal has to be made or that the penalty is not taken if it is not made. We as umpires have a mandatory signal in c5.6 if the penalty has not been taken. If we miss them taking the penalty they have taken it and if we do not remove the flag c7.4c then this is of no effect.
When one boat has a penalty, and we penalise the other, cannot we leave both flags flying till we decide a red flag is not appropriate? We have to do it "soon" so the delay in removing the flag is no a problem, and we have the short window of time to go for red or a second penalty.
I do believe that once removed there is no way back.
Mike B