In yesterdays post I wrote about the requirements of a Protest. I hope that most of you have thought about this and are willing to write a small comment. I realize that the example is perhaps a little far fetched for some of you, but I do assure you that it has happened when I was in a panel once or twice....
Anyway, today we continue with writing. Not a protest this time but a request for redress.
Rule 61.2 specifically deals with a protest. And looking at the definition,
But what then? What if a sailor comes to the desk a states he has a request for redress?
Would that be valid?
Looking at rule 62.2:
Does it have to describe the claim? Does it have to state who made the scoring of the boat significantly worse?
Should it describe the improper action or physical damage? Should it at least state when the incident took place?
How can the other party prepare if they don't know what it is about?
The rules give no definitive answer in my opinion, save it that in rule 62.1 it says ".... shall be based on a claim or possibility...... That might indicate that at least the claim should be written down.
Did you ever declare a request invalid because it didn't describe the claim?
Give me you opinion.
Anyway, today we continue with writing. Not a protest this time but a request for redress.
Rule 61.2 specifically deals with a protest. And looking at the definition,
An allegation made under rule 61.2 by a boat, a race committee or a protest committee that a boat has broken a rule.we can safely say, that a request for redress is something quite different. Rule 61.2 therefore does NOT apply.
But what then? What if a sailor comes to the desk a states he has a request for redress?
Would that be valid?
Looking at rule 62.2:
The request shall be in writing and be delivered to the race office no later than the protest time limit or two hours after the incident, whichever is later. The protest committee shall extend the time if there is good reason to do so. No red flag is required."...shall be in writing...." That is all. So a verbal request is not good enough, but written on a piece of paper is?
Does it have to describe the claim? Does it have to state who made the scoring of the boat significantly worse?
Should it describe the improper action or physical damage? Should it at least state when the incident took place?
How can the other party prepare if they don't know what it is about?
The rules give no definitive answer in my opinion, save it that in rule 62.1 it says ".... shall be based on a claim or possibility...... That might indicate that at least the claim should be written down.
Did you ever declare a request invalid because it didn't describe the claim?
Give me you opinion.
Unlike rule 61.2 for written protests, rule 62.2 does not state what information requests for redress have to contain, only that they shall be in writing and submitted in time.
ReplyDeleteWhile it does not have to have it, a written request for redress of course should say how and when the score of the boat for which redress is requested was made worse.
If a Scoring Review/Inquiry Request (Judges Manual, page 136) process and appropriate forms are in use and competitors are encouraged to use them, by making them readily available to competitors that approach the protest desk, then most of the necessary details will be obtained, and can be shared between the race committee and the protest committee. Encouraging competitors to submit requests for redress on the standard protest form will also assist in obtaining relevant details.
Having a duty judge and a duty race officer hanging around the jury desk talking to competitors will also go a long way towards helping have happier competitors and less surprises for the protest committee and race committee.
Note that the only grounds for redress that gives rise to a party (race committee or organising authority) other than the boat or boats for which redress is being considered is under rule 62.1(a) improper action or omission.
Also, redress sought under rules 62.1(b) and (d) will nearly always be associated with an underlying protest or rule 69 report. Exceptions are physical damage or injury caused by an unidentified racing boat or a vessel not racing. One would also hope that an incident involving giving help under rule 62.1(c) would also be well known to all race officials (although it would be understandable at a big regatta).
I have always accepted anything in writing, It can be worded scoring request of just a letter of complaint mantioning a worsening of score. There is nothin worse than a competitor being shut out and thinking there concerns are not being considered. I am very flexible on this one.
ReplyDeleteMike B
Hello Jos,
ReplyDeleteAt this years weymouth olympic test event we had such a strange request.
It just stated this is a request, a date, and a race number, sailnumber and Name.
Nothing more.
It was filed just in the time limit.
We said this is an invalid request.
We concluded that "in writing" is more than just writing a date, race number, sailnumber and name.
A request should describe what the party requesting "in writing".
By writing nothing what the request is about no one can prepare.
I still think our desision to invalidate this request was ok.
We had discussions on this, you will remember :-)
But, now pls. look here:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/in+writing
adverb "expressed in writing"
There is definitely a difference in the rulesbook in what should be written in a protest and what in a request for redress.
Which might be cleared in the next revision.
Yet i feel a request of redress shall state in writing what the redress is about.
looking forward to see a clarification from ISAF.
cheers from Hamburg
Jörn Richter
Hello Jos,
ReplyDeleteISAF did it.
They published a new Q&A Oktober 2011 booklet with an answer to my question. It is J 020 Q&A 2011-19. Link is: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/QABookletOctober102011-%5b11488%5d.pdf
Here is the Wording:
QUOTE
Situation
In an event a boat lodged a request for redress within the protest time limit. The request for
redress had no description nor any words or pictures/scribbles describing what the request was about. The request identified the class, the race number and stated: 'at the start of race 9'. Rule 60.1 distinguishes between a protest and a request for redress. According to rule 61.2 a protest shall be in writing and identify the incident. According to rule 62.2, a request for redress shall be in writing, but there is no requirement to identify the incident.
Question 1
Is the above request a valid request for redress?
Answer 1
No.
Question 2
Shall a request for redress identify what the request is about?
Answer 2
Yes. In order for a request for redress to be considered valid, it shall contain the basis of the boat's claim.
Rule 62.1 makes it clear that a request for redress shall be based on a claim that a boat’s scoring has been made significantly worse through no fault of her own. Rule 62.2 confirms that the request has to be in writing.
UNQUOTE
I think this clarifies.
cheers Jörn