Both Blue and Yellow are over early. Due to not enough people on the starting vessel the RC is a little late in calling them back. Yellow and Blue sail back to the starting line to start. This is what happens:
In position 3 the Blue boat on Port, forces Yellow on Starboard to gybe. The boats have no contact but it is very close. Blue protests in position 4.
You are the Umpire in the green rib. (and you are alone). What is your decision?
In position 3 the Blue boat on Port, forces Yellow on Starboard to gybe. The boats have no contact but it is very close. Blue protests in position 4.
You are the Umpire in the green rib. (and you are alone). What is your decision?
Penalize Blue. Rule 10.
ReplyDeleteBlue risks the penalty.
ReplyDeleteBoth are returning with initially yellow having right of way.
When blue has returned she acquires row by her own actions so is subject to rrs15.
Blue is also subject to rrs 16.1 and is at risk under this rule.
If yellow resounds quickly blue will have broken 16.1
See team racing call d1.
Mike b
Yellow I think is ok here because when she becomes subject to keeping clear she cannot luff because to do so would cause her to hit the mark.
ReplyDeleteWe're this not the case, then she may have chosen the wrong option to keep clear. She may at other times be obliged to luff and not gybe.
You cannot always force your way in. You can only be exonerated as windward boat if you were compelled to break a rule.
Mike b
Instant reaction - without consulting rule books.
ReplyDeleteAt position 3 Blue has passed below the extension of the start line and is no longer "returning to start". Blue luffs towards the start line, which is her proper course.
Yellow is to windward of the line and as such is "returning to start" and is required to keep clear. Yellow keeps clear by gybing.
NOw I will look at the rule book (i.e. switch from umpire to judge mode)
Gordon
At 3, blue becomes RoW boat because she has returned and yellow is still returning. Blue alters course and does not give yellow room to keep clear. Ping blue. I wonder if I should have said that in the heat of the moment on the water.
ReplyDeleteWag
Once blue is on the pre start side if the line, yellow must keep clear of blue. At position 3, blue is on the pre start side, yellow gibes to avoid blue. Since blue is changing course, blue must give yellow opportunity to avoid blue. No penalty given to yellow.
ReplyDeletePenalize Yellow under 21.1 at POS 3.
ReplyDeleteGrounds.
As soon as Blue crosses the extension of the start line, she is no longer returning to start and full rights are re-established. Yellow is still returning and heading directly towards Blue. Heading directly towards Blue is not keeping clear.
John
Yellow penalty. At position 3 yellow was reentering to start, blue wasn't. Yellow had t o keep clear and could have kept clear by luffing, but decided instead to gybe, failing to keep clear. A red flag could be handy as well.
ReplyDeleteAt position 3, Yellow is returning to the pre-start side of the line and therefore is a keep clear boat under rule 21.1. Since Blue is entirely on the pre-start side of the line, she is right of way boat. Yellow fails to keep clear and Blue is forced to take avoiding action to avoid a collision at positions 4-5. Penalty (Red if match racing) on Yellow.
ReplyDeleteIf this were an Isaf question and one looked at the diagram for facts the single umpire would not be able to say with certainty a rule was broken. Green and white flag.
ReplyDeleteMike b
A lot of different answers, a lot of different opinions.
ReplyDeleteOn the water there's no time to discuss.
Initially both boats are returning to start so rule 10 between them. That lasts until Blue is completely on the pre-start side of the line.
She then becomes right of way boat under rule 21.1. But subject to rule 15. She's clearly not giving Yellow room to keep clear. They practically have to crash jibe to avoid the collision. Yellow is not keeping clear as windward boat but is forced to do this by Blue breaking rule 15. I would penalize Blue under rule 15 and exonerated Yellow.
If this had resulted in Yellow unable to start then I would have considered a red flag penalty... or a double.
In position 3 yellow becomes the keep clear boat( as per the animation)Yellow had the option of bearing in and keeping clear. She chose to Gybe , the wrong option in my opinion . Blue then had to bear away in position 4 to avoid contact. penalise yellow.
DeleteInteresting to contrast with a fleet race where this could happen. No help for the boat if it cannot start here.
ReplyDeleteMike b
No mention of Yellow practically having to crash gybe in the inital text! This is a new fact!
ReplyDeleteI would suggest:
If Yellow's gybe is unseamanlike penalise Blue. If not, no penalty.
Gordon
Yellow - at position 2 yellow took a decision not to follow blue round the end, pushing rule10 into a position where it doesn't apply, it is obvious at this stage that blue will become the racing boat first (at that point 21.1 kicks in). . Yellow's decision at P2 makes near collision inevitable ... So at position 4 there surely can't be a claim of not enough time to clear.
ReplyDeleteDouble plenty for yellow. one for the infringement and one to put him back to where he should be
ReplyDeleteI think everybody has the rules pretty correct. In my opinion, at position 3, when Blue gains right of way by being on the prestart side of the line, Yellow has no option but to gybe, to keep clear. the description says, "it is very close," not "Yellow fails to keep clear." If the umpires decide that Yellow failed to keep clear,or that her gybe was unseamanlike, penalize Blue under rules 15 and 16.1. If they decide that Blue's bear-off at the last moment allowed yellow to keep clear, display the green and white flag.
ReplyDeleteI think 'very close' in a windward/leeward means the windward boat was not keeping clear. The leeward boat probably could not change course without immediately making contact. That definition of keep clear applies even though yellow is required to keep clear under 21.1 as well as 11.
ReplyDeleteWag