In my last FTBD-post I asked a question about taking a penalty while a crew member had fallen overboard. (Flog the Blog Day 22)
In the comments different answers were given, but I've since come to the conclusion that it might be even more complicated. Let us recap:
This was the original case:
In a race - bigger boats - a crew member falls overboard while the boat is sailing clear to take a penalty. The boat does one turn including a gybe and a tack, picks up the crew member and does it's second turn (with a gybe and a tack) straight after. There is hardly any time lost with picking up the crew member out of the water... The turns are done almost immediately after each other. The boat continues and subsequently wins the race. There's a valid protest on rule 47.2 by another boat. What is your decision?
In the comments different decisions were given:
- One decided on DSQ for breaking rule 47.2
- Three thought the penalty was incorrect ;
- One was undecided, the penalty might be correct;
- One wanted to dismiss the protest because the boat does not "make progress in the race";
- And even one who himself fell overboard, while expecting the boat to do it's turns. It is the boat being protested, so why not!
For certain, no consensus by a long way.
Precisely because of protests like this, an International Jury is made up from five different persons, who all can discuss the issue and convince each other. And finally vote to reach a decision.
In light of this, I want to set up a POLL again - the last one was already a long time ago - and let all LTW-readers form the "jury panel"
Before I give you the options, there's one other issue I want to raise. If the penalty was incorrect - because you think all crew-members have to be on board to make it valid - the boat has not exonerated itself. That in itself breaks no rule! You cannot be disqualified for not doing two turns - or for doing them incorrectly. You can only be disqualified for the original rule infringement the boat took the penalty for.
If a protest is handed in - like in this case, for breaking rule 47.2 - you need to go back to the original incident to find facts to determine if a boat indeed broke a rule. And since that is NOT what the protest was about, my own opinion is that you cannot do that. It is not part of the incident on the protest form.
But you might think differently, so I will include that option in the poll.
Everybody still with me?
You can vote for the following choices:
|Option 1:|| |
Penalty was correct, but the boat broke rule 47.2 by continuing in the race without all crew members on board. DSQ.
If while taking a two turn penalty you don't keep clear of another boat (on its proper course), you still have exonerated yourself for the original rule infringement. But you have broken rule 21.2, something you can be protested for anew. If you want to exonerate yourself for that, you need to do another two turns penalty. Unfortunately in our case, you cannot take a two turns penalty for breaking rule 47.2 - it's not in Part 2.
|Option 2:|| |
Penalty was correct, no progress in the race, so the boat did not break 47.2. Protest dismissed.
|Option 3:|| |
Penalty was incorrect, the boat did not exonerate itself. But protest is dismissed because original incident was not mentioned, and no DSQ
|Option 4:|| |
Penalty was incorrect, the boat did not exonerate itself. Panel will investigate and find facts about original infringement. Depending on the outcome the boat will be DSQ'd or the protest dismissed.
Even if the incident is not mentioned or described on the protest form, you are of the opinion that incorrectly taking a penalty in itself is grounds for going back to the original rule infringement. It is part of the same "incident".
|Option 5:||I'm deciding something else and tell about my arguments and decision in a comment on this blogpost.|
I'll let the poll run for a fortnight, say until middle of this month, October 18th. You can convince others by giving your arguments in the comments.
Ooh, you are allowed to change your vote!
|Results of the Poll|
Option 1: DSQ for Breaking RRS 47.2
Option 2: Penalty correct; P. dismissed
Option 3: Penalty incorrect; P. dismissed
Option 4: Penalty incorrect; Find Facts and decide
Option 5: Other, see comments