Below you'll find a protest form from TUR, delivered at the desk. You are member of the panel who has to decide this. All parties are present.
You are allowed to ask TWO questions. but not to the same party!
Protest No. 23
Event: Laser; Provincial Championship Fryslân
Race: 5
End of Protest time: 17:34
Protestor: TUR
Protestee: BRA
Witness: DEN
Protest delivered at desk: 17:36
Protest details:
Event: Laser; Provincial Championship Fryslân
Race: 5
End of Protest time: 17:34
Protestor: TUR
Protestee: BRA
Witness: DEN
Protest delivered at desk: 17:36
Protest details:
On the first beat to windward I almost hit DEN because BRA did not give me room to pass behind. Although I slowed down, I could not prevent from hitting BRA. I lost three places.
Place of incident: First beat to mark 1.
Rules broken: 10 en 19
Facts found:
.
.
.
.
Conclusion:
.
.
.
Rule(s) applicable:
.
Decision:
.
Fill in the blanks. The challenger who uses the least number of words - without compromising any detail - gets two bonus points!
Deadline for Episode 27/01; Rolex Miami OCR 49er Crash is today at 23:59 hours. Scoring will be per usual, on Sunday.
Previous Episodes:
LTW 2012 Winter Challenge 27/01: Rolex Miami OCR 49er Crash
LTW 2012 Winter Challenge 20/01
LTW 2012 Winter Challenge 13/01
Question to TUR – What delayed you from filing inside the time limit?
ReplyDeleteQuestion to BRA – Did you hail TUR for room to tack to clear DEN ?
Facts Found.
There were reasonable grounds to extend the time limit and accept the protest as valid.
TUR to weather and overlapped with BRA to leeward, close hauled on port are converging with DEN, close hauled on Stbd. BRA did not hail for room to tack to avoid DEN. BRA bore off and cleared closely, the transom of DEN. TUR slowed down and bore off to clear the transom of DEN. Contact occurred between the stbd bow of TUR and the port stern quarter of BRA.
Conclusion.
Contact occurred between TUR and BRA because BRA did not provide sufficient room for both TUR and BRA to pass astern of the obstruction DEN. While TUR may have lost places as a result of the incident, there are no grounds for granting redress to TUR.
Rules applicable
10, 11, 14 (b), 19.2 (a), (b).
Decision.
BRA is disqualified under R 19.2 (b) for failing to give room to TUR to pass between herself and the stbd tack obstruction, DEN.
BRA as ROW chose to pass astern of DEN. While TUR as windward boat is required to keep clear of BRA under R 11, she is exonerated under R 14 (b).
John
John, I've not entered you in the competition. But as comments on your writing:
DeleteA infringement of rule 11 can only be exonerated under rule 64.1(c). Rule 14b is not an exoneration, it's only a "not penalized" (this will change in RRS 2013-2016)
I would like to have seen some distances in you facts.
Rule 20 was never mentioned by either boat so why do you bring it up?
I agree with your decision.
I brought up R 20 just in case BRA hailed for room to tack. I wanted to make sure that BRA chose to duck DEN and was not forced to duck by TUR failing to respond to an R 20 hail.
DeleteJohn
TUR: I can see you handed in your protest two minutes too late. Is there good reason for the protest committee to extend the time limit? (or, as the RRS states, to extend the time? I didn't know PCs had power over the space-time continuum)
ReplyDeleteBRA: How much room did you leave for TUR to pass between you and DEN?
TUR answered: "There were people in front of me, so I had to wait. Is that a good reason?"
DeleteBRA answered: "Room? He had plenty of room!"
(to TUR) How long after your bow passed DEN before you began to head back up to closehauled?
ReplyDelete(to BRA) How long after your bow passed DEN before you began to head back up to closehauled?
TUR answered: "Straight away"
DeleteBRA answered: "Straight away, maybe two seconds?"
Question for TUR:
ReplyDeleteYour protest was delivered at the desk after the protest time limit. Can you give a good reason to extend the time limit?
Question for BRA:
Can you explain the incident in your own words?
TUR answered: "There were people in front of me, so I had to wait. Is that a good reason?"
DeleteBRA answered: "Do you want me to repeat what I said? Okay, I had to duck DEN, she was on starboard. After I ducked I headed up again and TUR touched my boat. She should have kept clear"
“TUR, why was your protest only delivered to the desk after the end of protest time?”
ReplyDelete“BRA, please describe what happened before, during and after the incident from your point of view, including any hails made by yourself or any other boat, and if there was contact, when contact occurred.”
TUR answered: "It took me that long to sail back in, clear my boat and fill in the form. There were people at the desk before me, otherwise I would have been before 17:34"
DeleteBRA answered: "I had to duck DEN, she was on starboard. After I ducked I headed up again and TUR touched my boat. He should have kept clear. He hailed Protest after we collided"
Question 1
ReplyDeleteTo TUR: Why did you deliver your protest form at 17.36?
Question 2 To BRA: How long after you luffed after clearing DEN did contact with TUR occur?
Grey Bear
TUR answered: "It took me that long to sail back in, clear my boat and fill in the form. There were people at the desk before me otherwise I would have been before 17:34"
DeleteBRA answered: "I don't know, maybe 2 seconds?"
Question for TUR - can you describe all the things you did, and the time taken for each of those things, from the time you finished the last race of the day to the time that you lodged the protest?
ReplyDeleteQuestion for BRA - can you tell us whether or not there was contact between you and TUR at position 3?
TUR answered: "After the finish of race 6 I sailed back in, which took about 20 minutes. Then I had to wait at the ramp and take my boat out of the water. I put it in the boat-park on the trolley and left it with the sail still up. That took another 25 minutes. I walked over to the desk and got the form. I went back to the boat and took down my sail because it was flapping like crazy. By the time I filled in the form and got back to the desk I had five minutes to spare. But there were two people in front of me. I handed in the form one minute after protest time."
DeleteBRA answered: "I'm not sure, I think his sail touched my back, but it was very short."
Question to BRA; Was there any damage to the boats?
ReplyDeleteQuestion to TUR; What was the wind speed?
BRA answered: "There's no damage to my boat. I don't know about his"
DeleteTUR answered: "Between 6 and 10 knots"
Question 1:
ReplyDeleteTUR, please tell us what you did from the time you finished or retired from the last race today until you handed in your protest form?
Question 2:
BRA, at the incident (or around it), was there any communication between TUR and you?
TUR answered: "After the finish of race 6 I sailed back in, which took about 20 minutes. Then I had to wait at the ramp and take my boat out of the water. I put it in the boat-park on the trolley and left it with the sail still up. That took another 25 minutes. I walked over to the desk and got the form. I went back to the boat and took down my sail because it was flapping like crazy. By the time I filled in the form and got back to the desk I had five minutes to spare. But there were two people in front of me. I handed in the form one minute after protest time."
DeleteBRA answered: "He yelled Protest after he touched my boat"
Facts found:
ReplyDeleteLasers close-hauled upwind; wind 6-10kts.
BRA and TUR on port tack, overlapped, BRA half boat length to leeward and half boat length ahead of BRA, approaching DEN on stbd tack.
Two boat lengths from DEN, BRA bears away to pass astern of DEN.
TUR does likewise.
BRA sails close astern of DEN and immediately luffs to close-hauled.
TUR has to slow down and sail very close to BRA to avoid contact with DEN; sail makes contact with BRA helm. TUR luffs 2 seconds later than BRA; contact between boats; no damage or injury.
TUR hails “Protest”.
No penalty taken.
Protest delivered 2 minutes after protest time because queue at desk.
Conclusion:
BRA and TUR kept clear of DEN (rule 10).
BRA (outside) failed to give TUR (inside, overlapped) room at the obstruction (DEN, ROW boat) (rule 19.2(b)).
BRA failed to give TUR room to keep clear when she luffed (rule 16.1).
BRA failed to avoid contact when it was reasonably possible, but no penalty as ROW boat and no damage or injury (rule 14).
TUR compelled to break rule 11 by BRA’s breach of rules 19.2(b) and 16.1; exonerated (rule 64.1(c)).
Not reasonably possible for TUR to avoid contact with BRA (rule 14).
Good reason to extend protest time (rule 61.3).
Rule(s) applicable:
10, 11, 14, 16.1, 19, 61.3, 64.1(c)
Decision:
Protest valid.
DSQ BRA.
Zaphod
The only thing that is missing is a distance between BRA and DEN at the moment of passing. But very good.
DeleteScore 9 points
Validity
ReplyDeleteProtest time limit 17:34.
17:29 TUR at protest desk with completed form: nobody available until 17:36, when lodged.
Good reason to extend time: RRS 61.3.
Protest valid.
Facts
Wind 6 – 10 knots.
BRA, TUR closehauled, overlapped on port. TUR windward.
Both bore away to pass astern of DEN, on starboard: 2m between DEN/TUR; half boatwidth between TUR/BRA with BRA ahead 1m.
Once clear of DEN, BRA luffed @6 degrees.
TUR held course, eased sheet: after BRA sailed 1.5 boatlengths, contact.
No damage, injury.
Conclusions
TUR broke r.11.
BRA gave room required 16.1 & 19.2(b).
BRA, TUR broke 14: BRA not penalised.
Rules
11, 16.1, 19.2(b)
Decision
TUR DSQ
In your facts found you state that TUR eased her sheets. But you do not conclude that there was not enough room for TUR to pass astern of DEN. BRA must give room - including room to keep a sail trimmed - otherwise she breaks 19.2(b).
DeleteA laser is a little less than 1.5 meter wide, with half a boat width between BRA and TUR makes 2,25 m. But BRA left only 2 meters. So that is clearly not enough room.
Score 5 points
FACTS FOUND:
ReplyDeleteAfter getting the protest form, TUR returned to his boat and took down his flapping sail.
TUR returned to the jury office with the filled out form 5 minutes before the protest time limit.
Two people were before him in the line.
Protest was delivered 2 minutes too late.
DEN was beating with wind from starboard, on a converging course with TUR and BRA, who were beating with
wind from port.
TUR was to windward of and 0.5 boat lengths behind BRA.
When BRA was 2 boat lengths and TUR was 2.5 boat lenghts from DEN, both bore away simultaneously, leaving
only narrow space between BRA and TUR.
BRA passed directly behind DEN.
TUR slowed down 0.5 boat lengths from DEN, her sail touching BRAs back at the same time, and passed
directly behind DEN.
BRA luffed to close-hauled 2 seconds after clearing DENs transom.
TUR held her course with luffing sail for 1 boat length after clearing DENs transom before starting to
luff.
Contact occurred between the starboard side of TURs bow and the port side of BRAs aft hull.
TUR luffed above close-hauled.
Neither damage nor injury was sustained.
No penalties were taken.
CONCLUSIONS AND RULES THAT APPLY:
Returning to the boat to secure the sail and thereafter having to wait in the cue 7 minutes before
delivering the protest form is good reason to extend the protest time limit under rule 61.3.
BRA was right of way over TUR under rule 11.
DEN had right of way over TUR and BRA under rule 10 and was an obstruction to both.
BRA chose to pass behind DEN.
TUR was entitled to room to pass between DEN and BRA under rule 19.2(b).
TUR had to slow down to avoid DEN and at the same time touched BRA.
TUR failed to keep clear from BRA and hereby infringed rule 11.
TUR could not reasonably avoid contact with BRA and did not infringe rule 14.
BRA failed to avoid contact with TUR when it was reasonably possible for her to do so and infringed rule
14.
Neither damage nor injury was sustained and BRA shall not be penalized for infringing rule 14.
BRA failed to give TUR room to pass between her and DEN and hereby infringed rule 19.2(b).
TUR was compelled to infringe rule 11 by BRAs infringements and is exonerated under rule 64.1(c).
TUR failed to keep clear from BRA and hereby infringed rule 11.
While luffing, BRA had to give TUR room to keep clear under rule 16.1.
TUR was not compelled to hold her course for 1 boat length before responding to BRA by luffing.
TUR did not act promptly in a seamanlike way and hereby took more room than she was entitled to under rules
16.1 and 19.2(b).
BRA complied with rule 16.1.
BRA and TUR both failed to avoid contact when it was reasonably possible for both to do so and infringed
rule 14.
Neither damage nor injury was sustained and BRA shall not be penalized for infringing rule 14.
DECISION:
Protest time limit extended under rule 61.3.
BRA is disqualified from race 5 under rule 64.1(a) for infringing rule 19.2(b).
TUR is disqualified from race 5 under rule 64.1(a) for infringing rules 11 and 14.
Your conclusion is consistent with facts found. I would however exonerate TUR for breaking 11 (both times), because it is the same incident.
DeleteScore 8 points
Grey Bear
ReplyDeleteEpisode 03/2
Protest N° 23
Race N° 5
Protestor : TUR
Protestee : BRA
Witness : DEN
Facts Found:
1. The protest time limit was 17.34. TUR queued for 7 minutes before delivering the protest at 17.36.
2. TUR hailed protest when the boats made contact.
2. On a beat to windward, TUR to windward of BRA, both on port, were approaching DEN on starboard.
3. BRA bore away and passed 1 metre astern of DEN.
4. TUR bore away to pass astern of DEN.
5. TUR's mainsail made contact with helm of BRA.
6. After crossing astern of DEN, BRA luffed to close hauled.
7. Almost immediately there was contact between hulls of BRA and TUR.
8. There was no damage.
Conclusion
1. The Protest Committee extended the Protest Time Limit. The protest was valid.
2. DEN, on starboard, was an obstruction for TUR and BRA, on port
3. BRA, overlapped on the outside, did not give room to TUR to pass between her and DEN. BRA broke rule 19.2(b)
4. When BRA, right of way boat, luffed, she did not give TUR room to keep clear. BRA broke rule 16.1
5. TUR, to windward, did not keep clear of BRA. TUR broke rule 11 but was compelled to do as a consequence of BRA breaking rules 19.2(b) and 16.1.
6. It was reasonably possible for BRA to avoid contact with TUR. BRA was right of way boat and contact caused no damage or injury. BRA may not be penalised under rule14(b).
7. Before contact it was not clear to TUR, entitled to room, that BRA was not giving room. TUR did not break rule 14
Rules applicable
10, 11, 14, 16.1, 19.2, 61.3, 63.5, 64.1(a), 64.1(c).
Decision
1. BRA is disqualified from race 5 (rule 64.1(a)).
2. TUR is exonerated under rule 64.1(c).
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteVery good
DeleteScore 10 points + 2 bonus points (288 words)
(Assumptions: no turns taken, the diagram is agreed-on by the parties, a rule was mentioned by TUR in the protest or during the hearing)
ReplyDeleteFacts found:
. On a beat to windward, DEN sailed on starboard tack. TUR and BRA sailed on port tack, with TUR overlapped to windward of BRA.
. TUR was initially on a collision course with DEN.
. BRA and TUR beared away and passed astern of DEN.
. TUR's mainsail touched BRA's helmsman's back.
. BRA luffed after passing astern of DEN.
. TUR slackened her sails and later luffed.
. There was contact between TUR's bow and BRA's port side, close to her stern.
. TUR's skipper hailed protest soon after the incident. He handed the protest form two minutes after the protest time limit. He did so after sailing in, lifting his boat, taking his sail down, filling the protest form, and waiting behind two people at the desk.
Conclusion:
. TUR hailed Protest at the first reasonable opportunity. There is no requirement to display a red flag (hull length under 6 m.). There is good reason for the protest committee to extend the protest time limit. The protest is valid.
. As boats on port tack, BRA and TUR must keep clear of DEN, on starboard tack. DEN is thus an obstruction to BRA and TUR.
. TUR, as windward overlapped boat on the same tack, must keep clear of BRA.
. BRA, as right-of-way boat over TUR, may choose to pass DEN on either side.
. Having decided to pass DEN to leeward, BRA must give room to TUR, as overlapped inside boat, to pass between her and the obstruction. BRA gave sufficient room to TUR.
. TUR failed to keep clear of BRA (first, when her sail touched BRA's helmsman's back, and later when there was contact. TUR could have over-trimmed the sail in the first case, and in the second case luffed instead of, or in conjunction with, slackening her sails, luffing above close-hauled if necessary to keep clear. All of these possible actions are seamanlike.)
Rule(s) applicable:
. 10, 11, 19, 61
Decision:
. The protest time limit is extended
. Protest is upheld
. TUR breaks rule 11 and shall be disqualified.
Because you have no distances in you facts found how can you conclude if there was or was not enough room for TUR to pass astern?
DeleteIn you conclusions you describe too much. We do not need to hear all your reasoning. Example:
TUR as windward boat did not keep clear of BRA as leeward boat and broke rule 11. is enough.
Score 6 points
Protest time limit extended (rule 61.3).
ReplyDeleteFacts found:
1. On a beat to windward TUR and BRA on port tack approached DEN, a starboard tack boat, BRA 2 m advanced and 1.3 m to leeward of TUR.
2. TUR and BRA bore away 20 degrees, TUR slowed down to half speed. They both passed 0.4 m astern of DEN. DEN did not change course.
3. Astern of DEN, BRA headed back up to close-hauled, TUR continued sailing in straight line for 3 seconds,
4. then contact occured between TUR and BRA without damage.
Conclusion:
1. BRA and TUR kept clear of DEN under rule 10.
2. BRA gave TUR room to pass DEN, an obstruction. BRA did not break rule 19.2(b).
3. TUR did not keep clear of BRA, a leeward boat. TUR broke rule 11.
4. While BRA changed course she gave TUR room to keep clear. BRA complied with rule 16.1.
5. It was reasonably possible for TUR and BRA to avoid contact. They broke rule 14. BRA is exonerated under rule 14(b) as a right of way boat.
Rule(s) applicable: 10, 11, 14, 19.2(b), 61.3
Decision: DSQ TUR
Your facts state that there was less than half a meter distance between DEN and BRA when the latter passed astern. How can that be enough room for TUR?
DeleteRoom for the inside boat under rule 19.2(b) includes room to NOT have to slow down.
Score 5 points
Facts Found
ReplyDeleteOn first beat to windward Tur and Bra close hauled and overlapped (Bra to leeward) on port tack on a collision course with Den on Starboard.
Bra changes course to go astern of Den and gave Tur room to pass astern of Den.
Immediately after passing astern of Den, Tur made a sharp change of course back to a course above her normal and previous close haul course and immediately made contact with Bra.
Contact was the starboard aft corner of Tur and the mid port side of Bra. No damage occurred.
Wind died on sail in from race boat arrived at shore at 17:30
Conclusions
Protest committee found lack of wind a good reason to extend protest filing time limit RRS61.3
Bra the outside boat gave Tur room to pass astern of Den as required in RRS 19.2b
Tur the windward boat failed to keep clear of Bra because of its sharp change of course to above close haul took more room than was needed to return to her proper course in a seaman like way.
Tur failed to avoid contact when it was reasonable possible to do so.
It was not reasonably possible for Bra to avoid contact when Tur made a sudden and radical change of course.
Decision Tur is DSQ for breaking RRS 11 and 14
In your facts found you write a conclusion: BRA gave TUR gave room to pass astern of DEN. How can you conclude this without first finding facts to support this?
DeleteThe course change by TUR higher than close-hauled, happened AFTER the contact, so how can that be the cause?
Score 3 points.
- Protest time limit extended.
ReplyDeleteFacts found:
- Windward Beat. DEN Stb.
- TUR, BRA port, overlapped. BRA leeward.
- BRA ducks
- TUR slows, ducks, passes between.
- BRA luffs slowly to close hauled. TUR doesn’t keep clear. Contact BRA-TUR. No damage.
Conclusion:
- Slowing not unseamanlike. BRA complied 19.2(b).
- BRA complied 16.1.
- TUR breaks 11
- Either could avoid contact, both break 14. BRA, R.O.W., not penalized.
Rule(s) applicable:
10, 11, 14, 16.1, 19.2
Decision:
TUR DSQ
Your entry is very telegram styled- a little too much.
DeleteYou're not including any distances- therefore it's hard to conclude whether or not BRA complies with 19.2(b).
You have a couple of conclusions in your facts found.
Slowing may be not unseamanlike, but TUR has the right to room behind DEN including room to keep her sail trimmed.
Score 5 points
TO ALL:
ReplyDeleteRule 14b not only applies to the ROW-boat. It also applies to a boat entitled to room or mark-room. So if you have concluded that TUR could have avoided the contact, she's nevertheless not penalized because she was entitled to room under 19.2(b)