Dear Q&A panel,
During the Extreme
Sailing Series Act 1 in Muscat, Oman, we encountered an incident for which we
think the rules have no answer. I'm sending you attached a Boat Scenario file,
a gif-file and some png-file, derived from that program. We discussed the
incident with the whole umpire team, but found no solution covered by the
rules.
Yellow = Luna Rossa; Red = Alinghi; Blue = The Wave; Three black lines =
Breakwater (shore)
In position 1 Luna Rossa asks for room to tack. Alinghi responded in
position 3 with “you tack”. In position 5 both Alinghi and the Wave asked for
room and protested when contact occurred.
The Wave has to give Alinghi room to pas behind the obstruction (Luna
Rossa) (RRS 19.2). Alinghi has to give room to the Wave for the breakwater (also RRS 19.2)
The Wave has right of way, but nowhere in the rules is there a definite solution
to who is breaking a rule.
We ended up deciding it this way: Both broke rule 19.2 but Alinghi also
broke rule 11; Penalty on Alinghi.
What if Luna Rossa had not completed her tack, never becoming an
obstruction until later?
The Wave then does not have to give Alinghi room (there's no obstruction),
but Alinghi does have to give room to The Wave for the breakwater and keep
clear. The fact that Alinghi has an obligation under rule 20 to give room to
Luna Rossa to keep clear, does not make Luna Rossa an obstruction> Before
the 2010 RRS change it would have.
The problem seems to
arise from the fact that the rules specifically state a boat has to give room
if it is able to, from the moment the overlap is established. In our
case that was already several boat lengths before. At that moment both were
able to give room. But when the boats arrived at the limited space available
there was no room for both of them, only for one.
All things being
equal, we decided on the water that the keep clear boat should not have gone in
there. The right of way boat had no route to escape, but the keep clear boat
could perhaps have luffed. In discussion we found no better solution.
For the Umpire Team,
Extreme Sailing Series 2011,
Sofia Truchanowicz & Jos Spijkerman
Sofia Truchanowicz & Jos Spijkerman
Lets see what comes back. I'll inform you of the answer....
I"m confused. Why does rule 19 apply at all here? When Red (let's use colors, names are too confusing!) responds "You Tack" she must give Blue room to tack and avoid her. Her rule 20 obligation doesn't cease to apply until that is satisfied. As Red then bears down, it is impossible for Blue to tack! Thus Red breaks rule 20.1. Moreover, since rule 20 still applies between them, rule 19 does not (per the preamble).
ReplyDeleteDo the umpires claim that rule 20 does not apply between Red and Blue WRT yellow because the hail was made WRT to the seawall? First, I'm not sure I buy that. Second, how do they know that the hail was made WRT to the seawall and not WRT yellow, also an obstruction?
Red took at least one boat length too long to respond to the hail from Yellow for room to tack. (R 20.1.b immediately)
ReplyDeleteYellow, once hailed by Red 'you tack', took two to three boat lengths too long to tack. R 20.1.c. As Yellow hailed for room, she should have been ready to tack as soon as the reply hail was made.(This was the real cause of the conflict)
Had both events occurred more promptly, then there would have been 'just' enough space for Blue to give room for Red to clear the obstruction (Yellow) without the problem of the breakwater.
of course, Yellow would not know what Red planned to do to keep clear, but took away from Red's options by delaying her tack.
Obvious solution is to sail monohulls, which do not take half an hour and half an acre to tack! :)
ReplyDeleteJust one thought:
ReplyDeletedid Yellow have the right to call for room to tack? R20.3 states that a boat shall hail only if a 'substantial' course change is required 'to avoid the obstruction'. If Yellow had just luffed up a bit (even up to HTW) - which is a small course change - she had avoided the shoreline. R20.3 doesn't state .. 'to avoid the obstruction and sail her proper course' which is to tack.
Fritz
I think the exception in 19.2b was intended to apply to Blue here. From the moment overlap began, Blue was unable to do anything that would result in room for Red to pass behind the newly-tacked Yellow. That is, I interpret "from the time overlap began" to apply to the ability of the burdened boat to take action, rather than to the existence of room.
ReplyDeleteSomeone might argue that Blue could have slowed down several boat-lengths earlier, to become clear astern of Red. That seems the only safe way for Blue to allow for the all possible rule 19 requirements with respect to Yellow as a potentially disappearing, then reappearing, obstruction
I wish the rules said that boats racing were never obstructions.
Is this not similar to the case when both boats are sailing astern by backing a sail.
ReplyDeleteWe say rule 21.3 applies equally to both boats so other part 2 rules apply.
Penalise Red as windward boat.
A similar situation was addressed in AC32 and a call issued. I will post this when I find it.
In position 3-4, Blue should have attempted to tack according to rule 20.1(c). She did not. Failing to do so can be understood that her hail was made when safety was not an issue. If safety was an issue, she would have presumably tacked. This is irrespective of the reason for the original hail.
ReplyDeleteBlue broke rule 20.3.
Notwithstanding Blue's breach of 20.3, in position 5, rule 19 applied. This does not conflict with the earlier rule 20 instance which had essentially passed when Blue did not tack in response to the 'You Tack' reply.
In position 5 then, both Yellow and the seawall are obstructions. Red is the outside boat relative to the sea wall, and Blue is the outside boat relative to Yellow!
Both boats could be considered as 'outside' and therefore required to give room.
By the definition of 'room', each must give the other the space needed to act in a seamanlike way.
Blue is unable to give that space to Red, since the seawall obstructs her. However, Blue is the right of way boat by rule 11. No part of rule 19 overrides the Section A rules. When Red tried to squeeze into that space between Blue and Yellow, she broke rule 11.
Red broke rule 11.
Blue then, having chosen to pass that side of Yellow, is technically required to give 'room' to Red to do the same. However, she is not expected at anytime to act in an unseamanlike way to comply with a rule. It is unseamanlike to hit a seawall.
Therefore, Blue was unable to provide that room. The presumption can only be that Blue would have given room if the seawall was not there. Another way of looking at this is that Blue had not yet broken rule 19, since she did not yet have an opportunity to comply with rule 19.
Yellow broke no rules.
In position 5, rule 19 applied. Both Yellow and the seawall are obstructions. Red is the outside boat relative to the sea wall, and Blue is the outside boat relative to Yellow!
ReplyDeleteBoth boats could be considered as 'outside' and therefore required to give room.
By the definition of 'room', each must give the other the space needed to act in a
seamanlike way.
Blue is unable to give that space to Red, since the seawall obstructs her. However, Blue
is the right of way boat by rule 11. No part of rule 19 overrides the Section A rules.
When Red tried to squeeze into that space between Blue and Yellow, she broke rule 11.
Red broke rule 11.
Blue then, having chosen to pass that side of Yellow, is technically required to give
'room' to Red to do the same. However, she is not expected at anytime to act in an
unseamanlike way to comply with a rule. It is unseamanlike to hit a seawall.
Therefore, Blue was unable to provide that room. The presumption can only be that Blue
would have given room if the seawall was not there. Another way of looking at this is that
Blue had not yet broken rule 19, since she did not yet have an opportunity to comply with
rule 19.
Yellow broke no rules.
[It seems that most people are misinterpreting the diagram. The first hail for "room to tack" comes from Yellow at position 1 and is directed to Red. The "room to tack" hail does not from Blue at position 3]
ReplyDeleteBecause of the "room to tack" hail by Yellow to Red Rule 19 never applies between Yellow & Red because Rule 20 applies (refer to the preamble of Section C). Thus, Red is not entitled to room to pass behind Yellow. Therefore, Red as windward boat must keep clear of Blue (Rule 11). Red needs to keep clear of Yellow and I think could have done so by tacking. If she had done so Blue wouldn't have needed to change course.
Blue did as much as reasonably possible to avoid causing contact so doesn't break Rule 14.
I think the only point of confusion is whether or not Rule 19 applies between Blue and Red WRT the seawall. I think it is clear that Rule 19 doesn't apply to Red WRT to Yellow.
In pos.#5 Yellow isn't a obstacle for Blue and Red (they don't must keep clear to shy). Therefore only R broke r.19.(b); also she broke r.11
ReplyDeleteI was guilty of misreading the facts.
ReplyDeletePost number 7 can be deleted. I reposted my opinion in number 8.
Sorry
Essentially it is the same. The conflict between two rule 19s, where Blue and Red are both 'outside' boats. It boils down to rule 11, since Blue is unable to give any more room than he does do (which is none). Thus Blue did not 'break' rule 19.
Once again, Alinghi sailed into an untenable position... and therefore got disqualified.
ReplyDeleteSounds right to me!
We can see two boats may break the rules but what to focus on with RRS 19 is the exoneration.
ReplyDeleteExoneration is under RRS 64 and here you have had to be compelled to break a rule.
At the speed of the boats there is little Blue could have done but Red was not compelled so no exoneration and a penalty.
Perhaps the answer is that neither Blue (the Wave) or Red (Alinghi) should have taken the stern of (Yellow) Luna Rosa and there should have been penalties on both Blue and Red.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, there should have been two calls for room to tack, one by Blue and one by Yellow.
Blue was obligated under RRS 19.2 to give Red room to pass behind Yellow. As Blue could not give that room, Blue could not choose the option to take Yellow's stern as she could not meet all of her obligations while sailing that course. Blue did have the option to ask for room to tack away from the shore by using her rights under RRS 20.
Both Blue and Red sailed into situations where they could not meet their obligations: Red to stay clear as windward boat and Blue to give Red room to sail astern of Yellow. Therefore they both broke rules. Blue was not forced to break a rule by Red. Blue had the option to hail for room to tack under RRS 20 and chose not to and therefore she is not exonerated.
Blue would have been wise, as John C says, to hail Red for room to tack. However, before penalizing Blue under 19.2 we need to determine that Blue was able to "give the inside boat room betweeen her and the obstruction". A hail from Blue would not result in that room.
ReplyDeleteHere very nice illustration for words "the rules have no answer" - http://video.mail.ru/mail/coach_966/_myvideo/37.html ;)
ReplyDelete