LTW 2012 Winter Challenge E02/24: YES/NO

Friday, 24 February 2012

LTW 2012 Winter Challenge E02/24: YES/NO

Another Friday, another Challenge in our Winter Series. This time I'm presenting you with two animations.

Protest between two F18's. Purple and Grey at the first upwind mark to be left to port. Protest is delivered in time and has all necessary details are filled in. Grey protest Purple for not keeping clear under rule 13. The hearing is scheduled and started. The PC declares the protest valid.

The situation depicted in the animation ONE is what GREY tells in the hearing room.

The situation depicted in the animation TWO is what PURPLE tells in the hearing room.

You can ask two questions to both parties. (that is two to Grey and two to Purple)
Deadline for Question 1 (one to each) is Monday 23:59, and Question 2 (one to each) Wednesday 23:59

Your challenge:
Write the facts found, conclusion and decision of the protest.

Deadline for the previous Episode 02/17 is midnight tonight (23:59hours)

53 comments:

Goomer24 February 2012 at 23:01
Question to PURPLE:
How long did you hold head to wind at the mark, and why?

Question to GREY:
What was the position of PURPLE’s jib when you bore away?
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latindane25 February 2012 at 15:53
Grey: according to your drawing, Purple passed head-to-wind before you sailed astern of her. Please tell me what you base that statement on.

Purple: according to your drawing, you did not pass head-to-wind until after grey sailed astern of you. Please tell me what you base that statement on.
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Dauphine27 February 2012 at 09:05
Question for Grey - While your diagram gives an overview, I'm interested in what you actually saw at the time from your own boat. What did you actually see at the time of the incident which lead to your conclude that Purple had passed head to wind at position 5?

Question for Purple - I'm interested to know what happened after position 7 when you bore off to the next mark, including your relative position with Grey. Therefore, can you either draw a diagram that shows that, or alternatively tell me all the details so that I can draw a diagram myself?
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Bowman27 February 2012 at 14:41
To Purple: In your depiction of the incident, you luffed up to head to wind and held that course for some time whilst Grey passed behind you. You say that you didn't go past head to wind. But, how is it that you were able to keep an eye out for Grey and also keep an eye on your sail and still be so sure that it didn't go past head to wind?

To Grey: In your depiction of the incident, Purple passed head to wind between positions 4 and 5, how is it that you noticed this happen whilst at the very same moment you were manoeuvring to avoid hitting Purple?
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Blue Peter27 February 2012 at 16:07
To Purple: Please give me a complete description of how you carried out the tacking.
To Grey: What was your speed on entering the zone?
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Anonymous27 February 2012 at 18:23
The same question to both Purple and Grey:

Could you please describe the incident giving details of boat speed, distances between boats and other information you believe to be relevant?

Grey Bear
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Zaphod27 February 2012 at 22:29
Grey, I understand from your diagram that you believe Purple luffed and then tacked without pausing head-to-wind, and in particular, had already passed head-to-wind before you bore away. What did you see and when that leads you to this view?

Purple, I understand from your diagram that you believe you paused for a number of seconds head-to-wind before completing your tack, and in particular that you didn't pass head to wind until Grey was already steering to pass astern of you. How can you be sure that you didn't pass head-to-wind, even momentarily, before that time?
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Agnes27 February 2012 at 22:46
Question to Grey:
What was the distance between your boat and Purple boat at the moment when you reached head to wind at the mark (at position 7)?

Question to Purple:
Please describe, what kind of boathandling (steering, sheeting, etc.) did you do while you were at the mark at positions 5 to 7?
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Happiness Room6 March 2012 at 08:17
Question for Gray: Tell me how your course changed from the time Red luffed up to head to wind until Red started tacking. Feel free to elaborate.
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latindane6 March 2012 at 10:54
Grey: please be as precise as possible about the relative timing of the following two events: 1) the moment purple started bearing noticeably off towards the next mark and 2) the moment you stopped bearing off to avoid purple.

Purple: please be as precise as possible about the position of grey relative to you when you passed head-to-wind.
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Goomer7 March 2012 at 03:53
Same question to both PURPLE and GREY:
Do you have a witness who can describe their view of the incident?
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Anonymous7 March 2012 at 19:03
Question to Grey: Can you tell us precisely what you mean by "His jib was tacking"?

Question to Purple : In the prevailing conditions how long can you hold your boat head to wind without losing way and beginning to move backwards?

Grey Bear
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Zaphod7 March 2012 at 19:32
Grey, did you see Purple complete her tack to a close-hauled course on starboard tack, and if so, how long after you bore away to pass astern of her do you estimate this happened?

Purple, I was under the impression that it was difficult to tack a catamaran if you didn't do so in one smooth manoeuvre. Please could you explain how you managed to complete your tack on this ocassion given that you say you sailed head-to-wind for 5 seconds?
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Agnes7 March 2012 at 23:02
Question to Grey:
How long were you able to observe Purple's jib after the moment his jib first came to the port side?
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Blue Peter7 March 2012 at 23:56
To Purple: you said that you waited head-to-wind before you put your helm down until you saw Grey bear away and Grey said he bore away 6 metres from you and at that time your jib was already on the port side. So where exactly was he when you put your helm down?

To Grey: in your tack after bearing away, how long did it take you to get from a close-hauled course to head-to-wind?
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Dauphine8 March 2012 at 00:00
Jos. Please ignore my earlier questions, which were sent without the benefit of the first lot of answers.

Question to Purple - To what extent, if any, did you lose speed between position 4 through to position 7. Can you give a comparison in knots?

Question to Gray - At position 5, how far from the center line of Purple's hull was her jib flapping?
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Dauphine8 March 2012 at 00:05
Jos. This is just a point of clarification about the answers given to Pelso's questions, rather than a further question of my own. It seems that Purple was giving an answer that would have given by someone on Gray's boats and vica versa (although Gray doesn't mention distances). To use an umpiring phrase, were they on their own boats?
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Goomer8 March 2012 at 18:59
Facts Found:
1. PURPLE and GREY were approaching the first upwind mark to be left to port.
2. Both were on port tack, sailing about 6-8 knots, on a course to pass close to the mark.
3. PURPLE was clear ahead at the zone by 3 lengths.
4. Initiating a tack, PURPLE luffed head to wind beside the mark.
5. GREY bore away to avoid PURPLE when there was about 6 meters between the boats.
6. In conflicting testimony:
- GREY claims that PURPLE had passed head to wind before GREY bore away.
- PURPLE claims that she held head to wind for 5 seconds, until after GREY avoided her.

Conclusions:
1. It is uncertain whether PURPLE had passed head to wind at the time GREY altered course to avoid her.
2. The last point of certainty was that PURPLE had not.
3. PURPLE’s diagram is accepted.
4. GREY owed PURPLE mark-room (rule 18.2(b)).
5. When GREY bore away, she was both keeping clear of PURPLE, who was ROW (rule 12), and giving mark-room.
6. When GREY became overlapped outside of PURPLE, GREY continued to give PURPLE mark-room, including room to tack.
7. PURPLE does not break rule 13.

Decision:
Protest is dismissed.
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latindane9 March 2012 at 15:03
FACTS FOUND
- On a bat to winward, Purple -P- approaches the first top mark, to be left to port, on port tack. She sails close-hauled, on a course to pass just leeward of the mark.
- When P enters the zone, she is two boat lengths directly ahead of Grey -G-, who also sails on port tack and at a similar speed to P's.
- At the mark, P luffs to head-to-wind. G is on a collision course with P.
- G sees P's jib flapping on the port side of her mast, bears away to avoid P by passing behind her, and hails protest at the first reasonable opportunity.
- As G is passing behind P, P bears away and rounds the mark.
- No turns were taken (assumed, not wanting to "waste" questions).

Diagram of Purple is endorsed by the committee.

CONCLUSIONS AND RULES THAT APPLY
There is more than reasonable doubt that P passed head-to-wind before G had born away to avoid her. An untrimmed jib will flap on both sides of the mast even if a boat has not passed head-to-wind. The "last point of certainty" also points to P not passing head-to-wind. P was thus not subject to rule 13. G shall keep clear of P under rule 12, give her mark-room under rule 18.2(b), and avoid contact under rule 14. She complied with all of these rules by bearing away and avoiding P. No rules were broken.
DECISION
Protest dismissed

* I printed out and filled out most of a protest form this time. I hope I payed enough attention at the course :)
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Bowman9 March 2012 at 16:24
Facts Found: Purple sailing on port entered the zone two boat lengths directly and clear ahead of Grey also on Port. At the mark Purple luffed head to wind; Grey was on a collision course with Purple. When Grey was 6m away from Purple, Grey bore off about 10 degrees and passed behind Purple. Purple bore away and passed head to wind as Grey passed behind her. Grey luffed and tacked after passing behind Purple.

Rules that apply: 12 & 13

Conclusion: At the last moment of certainty (position 4), Purple was sailing a course directly into the wind and Grey was on a collision course. Grey was required to ‘keep clear’ (RRS 12) and did so by bearing away to pass behind Purple. Once Grey was no longer on a collision course, Purple was free to pass head to wind and tack. Purple ‘kept clear’ whilst subject to rule 13 (definition of ‘keep clear’).

Decision: No rules broken. Protest dismissed.
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Zaphod9 March 2012 at 17:47
Facts found:
F18s, Purple and Grey, close-hauled on port tack approaching windward mark to be left to port, both on port tack layline. Purple ahead, with Grey approx 2 boat lengths astern when Purple enters the zone.

When at the mark, Purple luffs head to wind.

Grey continues close-hauled directly towards Purple until, when approx 1 boat length (6m) away from Purple, she believes she sees Purple’s jib tack. Grey then bears away passing approx 1m astern of Purple before tacking outside Purple.

Purple meanwhile believes that she stayed head to wind, without passing head to wind, until after Grey had born away and started to pass astern of her, at which point she proceeded to complete her tack to round the mark.

No contact.

Impossible to determine with certainty, on basis of evidence available, whether Purple did or did not pass head to wind before Grey bore away to pass astern. Therefore, applying umpiring principle of ‘last point of certainty’ (see e.g. ISAF Q&A 2010-011), find as fact that Purple remained on port tack (last point of certainty) until after Grey had born away to pass astern.

Conclusion
Purple entered the zone clear ahead; Grey therefore required to give Purple mark-room at least until Purple passed head to wind (18.2(b) and (c)).

Purple gave Grey room to keep clear when she luffed (rule 16.1) (but would have been exonerated under rule 18.5(b) even if she hadn’t).

Grey initially required to keep clear under rule 12, which she did, and also to give Purple mark-room under rule 18.2(b), which she also did.

Purple required to keep clear of Grey under rule 13 once she passed head to wind (found as fact to be after Grey was passing astern of Purple), which she did.

Decision
Protest dismissed.

Zaphod
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Anonymous9 March 2012 at 19:47
Facts Found

Endorsing diagram 1 (Grey)

At a windward mark to be left to port:

1. Purple, on port, entered the zone two boat lengths ahead of Grey, also on port.
2. At the mark Purple luffed head to wind and slowed.
3. Grey, sailing at 6-8 knots, was one boat length from Purple, and on a collision course with her, as Purple reached head to wind.
4. Grey bore away about 10° and passed close astern of Purple.
5. Purple passed head to wind as, or immediately after, Grey started to bear away.
6. Having passed head to wind, Purple then bore away below close-hauled on starboard.
7. After passing within 1 metre of Purple's stern, Grey luffed head to wind outside her. Grey at this point was 1 boat length from the mark.

Conclusions

1. Purple was, initially, right of way boat (rule 12) and entitled to mark room (18.2(b)).
2. As Purple was clear ahead, her entitlement to mark-room did not include room to tack (definition mark-room).
3. When Purple changed course at the mark she gave room to Grey to keep clear and give mark room (rule 16.1). If she had not given room she would have been exonerated under rule 18.5 (b).
4. Grey was required to take avoiding action to keep clear and give mark-room before Purple became subject to rule 13. Grey kept clear, and gave mark-room, by bearing away.
5. When Purple passed head to wind, rule 18 ceased to apply (rule 18.1(a)). Grey acquired right of way (rule 13) by Purple's actions. Grey was not required initially to give Purple room to keep clear (rule 15). However, rule 16.1 would apply if Grey subsequently changed course.
6. Grey was so close to Purple that could not luff and give Purple room to keep clear until Grey had sailed beyond the stern of Purple.
7. When Grey did change of course she give Purple room to keep clear (rule 16.1). Purple kept clear by completing her tack.

Decision

No rule was broken.

Grey Bear
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Dauphine9 March 2012 at 22:14
Facts found

Purple and Gray were close hauled on port tack, sailing towards the windward mark, to be rounded to port. Both were on the port lay-line, travelling 6 to 8 knots.
When Purple reached the zone she was two boat lengths clear ahead of Gray.
When Purple was abreast of the mark, she luffed up to head to wind, and held that course for approximately 6 seconds. During that time she remained less than a boat width from the mark.
When Gray was one boat length from Purple, she bore away 10 degrees to sail astern of Purple who was head to wind. While Gray bore away, Purple’s hull never passed head to wind.
After Gray finished bearing away, she sailed astern of Purple. Purple then passed head to wind and bore off on starboard tack to round the mark.

Conclusions

At the time Gray needed to take avoiding action, Purple had the right of way pursuant to rule 12 because she was clear ahead, on the same tack.
At that time, Gray, the boat clear astern, kept clear of Purple and complied with rule 12.
Until Purple tacked, Gray was also required to give her mark room, under rule 18.2, and did so.
When Purple luffed up to head to wind, she gave Gray room to keep clear, and complied with rule 16.1.
Later, after Purple passed head to wind, she was required to keep clear of Gray under rule 13, and did so.

Rules applicable

12, 13, 16.1, 18.2

Decision

No rule was broken
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Agnes9 March 2012 at 23:01
Facts Found
1. Purple and Grey approached the windward mark to be left to port on the port tack layline, at a speed of 6-8 knots, with Purple 2 hull length ahead of Grey.
2. At the mark Purple headed up to head-to-wind and remained head-to-wind, going slowly ahead for 1.5-2 seconds, until Grey bore away 10 degrees to pass astern of her.
3. After that moment Purple bore away to starboard tack and Grey headed back up but remained behind Purple, then they rounded the mark.

Conclusions
1. Purple, as clear ahead boat at the zone, was entitled to mark-room under rule 18.2(b) until she passed head-to-wind (rule 18.2(c)). Grey complied with rule 18.2(b) by bearing away behind Purple.
2. After Purple passed head-to-wind she kept clear of Grey under rule 13.
No rule was broken.

Decision
Protest dismissed.
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Blue Peter10 March 2012 at 01:21
FF:
Purple and Grey, both on the port tack, approach the first windward mark to be left to port.
On entering the zone, Purple is clear ahead of Grey. Grey, two boat lengths behind, has 6-8 knots of speed.
Purple heads up into the wind, but knowing that Grey is close behind, does not pass head-to-wind and keeps head to wind for about 5 seconds longer than. Greys bears off 10 degrees to avoid the collision, sails behind Purple and protests. At this time, Purple puts his help over, finishes her tack and bears away to a broad reach course. At no time does Purple stop her movement over the water. After passing behind Grey, Purple also tacks and then goes to a broad reach course around the mark. There is no contact.

Decision:
No rules were broken. Protest rejected.
Grey has to initially keep clear of Purple according to RRS 12 as the clear-astern boat. This she does by bearing off 10 degrees to pass behind Purple, who is decelerated by heading into the wind. Purple is also initially entitled to mark room according to RRS 18.2(b), which includes the room to sail to the mark and to sail her proper course while at the mark, but not the room to tack. By heading into the wind, Purple sails above her proper course, but it does not break rule 18, or – as she is clear ahead – rule 17. As Purple passes head-to-wind, she becomes subject to RRS 13 and from this moment she has to keep clear. As this happens after Grey bore away and when the two boats are not on a collision course, Purple keeps clear by bearing away to a close-hauled course and does therefore not break RRS 13.
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Happiness Room12 March 2012 at 18:45
Facts
*On the first beat Red approached the windward mark on the port tack lay line. Gray was following the same path as Red but 4 boat lengths behind Red
*At the mark Red luffed head to wind and held that heading for 4 seconds, Gray altered her course when she was 2 boat lengths from Red. Gray passed astern of Red with no contact.

Conclusions
Gray, clear astern, had room to keep clear of Red after Red changed it course (R 12 and 16.1)

Decision
Grays protest is denied
No rule was broken
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