Some time ago I received an Email with a question from Wolfgang. I've been trying to find an answer, but no luck so far.
Perhaps one of LTW-readers can help?
Is there a protest, Q&A, case or call about the scoring problem with only one boat finishing in time?
And subsequently giving answers if that boat has finished normally or with OCS or with a Black Flag penalty?
This rings a bell. Can't find anything in Cases, Q&A, US Appeals or RYA Appeals.
ReplyDeleteRule 90.3 seems to deal with it pretty comprehensively.
Could you present us with 'the problem' please.
@Brass,
ReplyDeleteThis is all I got. If nobody finds anything I'll ask Wolfgang to formulate the question and we can try to answer it with 90.3.
Q&A 2001-001
ReplyDeleteSituation
A race has a time limit of two hours for the first boat to finish. The first boat finishes at 1 hour 59 minutes.
Questions
Does she finish within the time limit of rule 35 if:
1. She was scored OCS and did not return?
2. She started correctly and was later disqualified for breaking a rule?
3. She was recorded as having broken rule 30.3?
Answers
1. No. To comply with rule 35 (Time Limit), a boat must also comply with rule 28.1 (Sailing the Course) which requires her to start correctly.
2. Yes, provided the rule she broke was not rule 28.
3. Yes, provided she started in accordance with the definition Start. However, she will be disqualified in accordance with rule 30.3 and scored BFD.
ISAF Racing Rules Question and Answer Service
ReplyDeleteQ&A 2001-001
Revised: 12 January 2009
Situation
A race has a time limit of two hours for the first boat to finish. The first boat finishes at
1 hour 59 minutes.
Questions
Does she finish within the time limit of rule 35 if:
1. She was scored OCS and did not return?
2. She started correctly and was later disqualified for breaking a rule?
3. She was recorded as having broken rule 30.3?
Answers
1. No. To comply with rule 35 (Time Limit), a boat must also comply with rule 28.1
(Sailing the Course) which requires her to start correctly.
2. Yes, provided the rule she broke was not rule 28.
3. Yes, provided she started in accordance with the definition Start. However, she
will be disqualified in accordance with rule 30.3 and scored BFD.
This was one of the question in the last IJ Seminar in AUT.
ReplyDeleteThe correct answer was "if she started correctly and after something happens (dsq or oth) the race is valid.
So: No, Yes, Yes
Thanks to all !
ReplyDeleteThe question was at an IJ seminar:
Only one boat finished in time.
How do you score this race, when this boat is a)OCS and b) BFD!
My answer: a) no boat finished - the race should be abandoned by protest committee.
b) BFD has finished, but is disqualified - one BFD all the others DNF.
C) the race officer has to pay a lot of drinks to all sailors!!!!!
Wolfgang
seems to be a conflict between the requirement in the first sentence of rule 35 to sail the course and finish and the second sentence which commands the RC to abandon the race if no boat finishes within the time limit. A boat may finish according to the definition without sailing the course such as the OCS and Black flag boats. Rule 32.1 continues that conflict . See, 32.1(c) and last sentence of 32.1(e)
ReplyDeleteDefinition of "finish" does not include a requirement that the boat "start" or sail the course so as to questions 1 and 3 the answer should be yes, she does finish. Answer to question 2 clearly is yes. She may be disqualified for not starting, but this requires a protest hearing. A BFD does not require a hearing.
ReplyDeleteTheres is no conflict between the first and second sentences of rule 35.
ReplyDeleteThe second sentence says if no boat finishes (crosses the finish line from the direction of the last mark), the RC shall abandon the race.
The first sentence sys of one boat sails the course as required by rule 28.1 and finishes within the time limit the race shall be scored.
This does not expressly cover one boat finishing within the time limit but not having sailed the course as required by rule 28.
In my opinion 'finishes' in the second sentence should be read down to mean 'finishes having sailed the course as required by rule 28'
If this were not the case it would allow a boat finishing without having sailed the course, say by skipping several legs to make the race a valid scoring race, while no boat that did sail the course properly finished within the time limit.
David seems to misunderstand the working of OCS. OCS (or one of the OCS variants in rule 30) is the only penalty a boat can normally receive without a protest hearing, based on the RC's observations.
David has misunderstood the questions in Q&A 2001-01. Of course any boat that crosses a finish line from the direction of the last mark finishes. That was not the question. The question was, in each of the three situations did the boat 'finish within the time limit'.