START: ROLL FILM<<< 22:07:00
Yellow UMP: “Starboard Right, Outside Overlap; Approaching Zone.”
Blue UMP: “Port Give; Keeping Clear, Inside Overlap”
Yellow UMP: “Zone, Outside overlap; Have to give Markroom. Starboard right”
Blue UMP: “Agreed; Inside overlap entitled to Markroom; Port Give; Keeping clear”
Yellow UMP: “Starboard right; giving Markroom”
Blue UMP: “Port Give, Keeping Clear; Not using Markroom”
Blue Ump; “Gybing, Astern Give, Keeping Clear; Still entitled to markroom”
Yellow UMP: “Agreed, Ahead Right, closing the gab to the mark”
Yellow UMP: “luffing, Not giving room, Not giving Markroom”
Blue UMP: “Windward give, not Keeping Clear. Taking Markroom”
Blue UMP: “Contact. Windward Give, Not Keeping clear; Hitting Mark”
Yellow UMP: “Agreed, I did not give you Markroom, Yellow broke 18.2(B)”
Blue UMP: “Agreed; I did not get Markroom. Exoneration for not keeping clear and hitting mark? “
Yellow UMP: “Agreed, I forced you”
Blue UMP: “Yankee on Blue, Penalty Yellow”
Yellow UMP: “Agreed; Penalty Yellow”
Blue UMP: “I’ll make a note; we will check for damages after this match.”
Yellow UMP: “Agreed, I did not avoid contact, did you?”
Blue UMP: “I don’t think I could have done more, I even hit the mark”
Yellow: “Agreed”
THE END. SWITCH OFF: 22:38:09
Credits; Author: Darryl Waskow, Production/Editing: LTW, Software: TSS. March 25th 2009 -
Great Movie.
ReplyDeleteUmpires Manual D11 tells us we should call
Rights
Reasons
Obligations
Opportunities.
and goes on to discuss the benefits in terms of speed and decisiveness of moving from 'descriptive' to 'decisive' by using this sequence.
Personally I find it very helpful to commit myself to the Right, before describing the Reason.
I notice that some more senior umpires are in the habit of calling the descriptive reason at the start of each call.
Was that part of Umpire training in a previous generation, or is there another reason for not following D11?
I am not sure I agree with the reasoning here.
ReplyDeleteBlue, the boat entitled to room at position 1 leaves the zone (in fact she is not in it until just before position 4. Therefore 18.2(b) does not apply (18.2(c)). We then only have an 18.2(a) at position 5 and it could be judged that at that time Yellow could not give room. Even if she bears away from position 5 she would not be able to give room. She is not required to anticipate that Blue will get an inside overlap.
This could just as easily be a Blue penalty.
In #1, both boats are outside zone and RRS 18 does not apply. Boats are not overlapped since they are on opposite tacks - Definitions.
ReplyDeleteIn #2 and #3, Yellow has entered zone ahead of Blue and has earned mark-room - 18.2(b).
In #5 and #6, Blue is give-away boat and does not have right to mark-room - 18.2(b).
In #6, Yellow did not break 18(2) because boats were not overlapped when Yellow reached the zone. Yellow did not have to yield at the mark (14). Blue should receive penalty for making contact (14), and hitting mark (31).
Sorry Anonymous but the boats are overlapped.
ReplyDeleteSee last sentence of definition which reads
'They do not apply to boats on opposite tacks unless rule 18 applies or both boats are sailing more than ninety degrees from the true wind.'
@Brass: This is how I was trained. I'll check the manual again. I have not specifically paid attention to the order when typing, i must confess.
ReplyDelete@Brian: Rule 18 applies when one of the boats enters the zone. Regardless of how far the other is outside. If that is far away, the first boat gains mark-room which it doesn't need, but still.
If the other boat is just nearby - like here, it does get mark-room.
@Anonymous: Like Brian said, the definition has changed. That was done specifically for the reason used here. Rule 18 has a very narrow 'switch-on' point and it would be impossible if the overlap situation wasn't determined beforehand.
I agree that 18 applies when one is in the zone but 18.2(c) turns it off if the boat entitled to room (Blue in this case) leaves the zone. This to me implies that the boat has to be in the zone for the rule to continue to be in play. I hope we are not trying to say that if a boat has never been in the zone she cannot leave it. I agree this could be an interpretation but it would mean that one comes up with different answers if the Blue boat just cuts the zone (and then leaves it)or passes just outside the zone. This would be impossible to umpire and give inconsistent results.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see I'm not the only one who fires from the hip.
ReplyDeleteIf these boats are about 6m long and travelling at about 2kts, I reckon it takes about 30 secs from position 1 to 6. It took me 50 secs to read the umpire dialogue out loud.
Wag
If the Umpires find damage when they check the boats after the match, what will they do?
ReplyDeleteWill there be further penalties for a completed match race which uses on the water umpiring?
Could blue not have kept clear and avoided contact by passing astern of yellow?
Jos
ReplyDeleteI see the rules applying differently and thus a blue penalty.
1. RRs 18 still off but likely to apply
2. At entry to the zone, yellow now retains right of way, and blue becomes entitled to Mark Room.
Here I differ, room conceded by yellow is space and time limited (promptly) and yellow by not heading to the mark (and possibly gybing) takes room to which she is not entitled. This is like a boat not being able to make a tactical rounding. Yellow does not have to alter course to blue keeps clear.
From this point on what blue takes is not mark room, and if yellow has to alter course then blue is subject to a penalty.
3. As above.
Interestingly, if Blue sails outside the Zone, 18.2.b may be switched off. An interesting question comes as to whether you “are entitled to mark room” when you have moved to a point you have already taken room to which you were not entitled, so if the right of way boat has to alter course you have not kept clear.
Of course when you are taking more room than you are entitled to 18.5 does not apply.
4. Yellow remains ROW. Blue here has no 18.5 exoneration.
5. Yellow is subject to 16.1 so she has an obligation to give room to blue. But see Call UMP 29 where it is said it is not seamanlike to hit a mark. Yellow is at risk of a breach here.
It is also interesting with the two sides of mark Room. There is the room to sail to the mark, and then room to sail a proper course whilst at it. If you have taken excessive (or should it be not taken) the first, are you entitled to the latter namely room to sail the proper course at the mark?
Once you have taken excessive distance or not sailed promptly, does your action taint both parts of your entitlement to room?
Blue has to keep clear.
6. Blue has failed to keep clear. She has (I believe) taken mark room to which she was not entitled so she cannot be exonerated, so a penalty.
Yellow remains ROW (I will assume she was not in breach of 16.1 before) I believe as blue did not take the mark room to which she was entitled to “promptly” which is a part of room, she lost the right for the rounding. This leaves yellow with no penalty.
I leave you to look at 14.
What do you think?
Mike Butterfield
Yellow would have been well advised to have given space (altered course) at the mark and protested.
Agree with Brian that Blue was not sailing to the mark and therefore was taking room to which she was not entitled. If Blue's taking room not entitled to had caused Yellow (ROW) to alter course, Yellow could have protested, but this did not happen. Yellow still obligated to give mark room under 18.2(c) even tho' the overlap with Blue was broken. And Blue still entitled to Mark Room to sail proper course AT the Mark. Yellow did not give Blue any room at all at the mark so penalty Yellow. Since Blue sailed into the rounding taking more room than Mark Room, was she entitled to exoneration under 18.5? 18.5 only applies "when" a boat is taking mark room to which she is entitled, so "when" does Blue transition from darkness into light? Close call but since she got no room at all from Yellow, maybe the Umps got it right.
ReplyDeleteHow is the overlap not broken in position three? Yellow is now clear ahead, inside the zone, on starboard tack... the learning never stops...
ReplyDeleteI have a different view on "room"
ReplyDeleteIf you feel that yellow has to yield to blue after the initial establishment of rights when they first entered the zone, then to me yellow has taken too much room (in time).
It is not just whether blue has to alter course initially but also later in time.
In Mark room is the concept of room. Room in its definition has "while maneuvering promptly". Once time is lost by yellow not gybing, then any later alteration required by Blue is as a result of yellow taking excessive room.
Blue is always the ROW and only has to give this up to the extent required to give "mark room". When yellow takes too much room, the obligation on blue ceases, and ROW applies and Blue gets the penalty.
Yellow is at risk under 16.1 when she rounds up for the mark as there is no exoneration available to her.
Mike B
ReplyDeleteI think you may have your Blue and Yellow the wrong way round for part of this. If not I am totally confused.
To me Yellow is RoW and it is Blue that is entitled to room.