A new RRTR Call on the ISAF site today, about when an obstruction suddenly ceases to be an obstruction.
Or when a 'right-of-way'-boat that is an obstruction, becomes a 'keep-clear'-boat that isn't (by definition).
RAPID RESPONSE TEAM RACING CALL 2010/002
Rule 11 On the Same Tack, Overlapped
Rule 12 On the Same Tack, Not Overlapped
Rule 19 Room to Pass an Obstruction
Question 1
A and X are sailing on a broad-reach leg and are approaching Y, who is moving slowly. A’s bow is about half of a boat-length behind X’s bow and X is steering a course to pass to leeward of Y. At position 1, A hails for room to pass to leeward of Y. At position 2, X is overlapped to leeward of Y and there is no longer room for A to pass between them. A luffs to keep clear of Y and protests. What should the call be?
No penalty. When, after position 1, boats A and X are at the obstruction Y, rule 19 requires the outside boat X to give the inside boat A room between X and Y. However, at position 2, X is no longer required to keep clear of Y and, as a result, Y is no longer an obstruction. Because Y is not an obstruction, rule 19 no longer applies between A and X, and X is therefore no longer required to give A room to pass to leeward of Y. A keeps clear of X and Y as required by rules 11 and 12, respectively.
Question 2
Similar to question 1, except that A’s bow is about half of a boat-length ahead of X’s bow and X is steering a course directly toward Y’s transom. At position 2, A becomes overlapped to windward of Y. Shortly thereafter, X bears away and passes to leeward of Y. A protests. What should the call be?
Answer 2
No penalty. Rule 19 begins to apply between positions 1 and 2 when A and X are at the obstruction Y. Rule 19.1(a) gives X the right to choose which side to pass the obstruction. At the time rule 19 begins to apply, neither A nor X is outside or inside with respect to Y, and therefore rule 19.2(b) is not applicable.
At position 2, A becomes overlapped to windward of Y. A is now the outside boat, and must give X room between her and the obstruction under rule 19.2(b) if X chooses to do so. However, X chooses to go below Y. When X becomes overlapped to leeward of Y, X becomes an obstruction to A and Y and, accordingly, A must give Y room between her and X. A gives Y room as required by rule 19.2(b) and keeps clear of her as required by rule 11.
Question 3:
Similar to question 2, except that A and X are steering a course to pass to leeward of Y. At position 2, A becomes overlapped to leeward of Y. Y luffs to keep clear and protests. What should the call be?
Answer 3
No penalty. A and X are sailing a proper course and therefore do not break rule 17. At position 1, A keeps clear of X as required by rule 11. At position 2, A becomes overlapped to leeward of Y. X is now an obstruction to A and Y. As the outside boat, Y must give A room between her and X, provided that she is able to do so from the time the overlap began. Y must also keep clear of A under rule 11. Y gives room and keeps clear by luffing.
Published February 25, 2010 This call is valid until 1 January 2011
In case you are wondering why X already becomes an obstruction to Y in position 2 - remember the definition of overlap. Ooh, and in all animations the coloured boats are my additions. I used TSS this time. Although the animations have improved on the screen, it doesn't translate in the gifs as of yet.
For those of you who want to download the pdf: RRTR Call 2010-002
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The 2010 change to the definition of obstruction is going to be a HUGE GAME CHANGER. Now a boat in X's position can use a slow moving boat as a pick to wipe off a trailing windward comptetitor. Think about fleet boats jockeying for position judt prior to starting. Previously the rules required X to give A room to pass to leeward of Y if the overlap was established at 2BL. 2009 did away with the 2BL for obstructions but Rule 15 required X to give Y room to keep clear so Y was still an obstruction after X overlapped her and X had to allow A room to pass to leeward of Y. Now X is free to use Y to shake A off. This is not good.
ReplyDeleteYour posting about RRTR 2010-02 says "and in all animations the colored boats are my additions. I used TSS this time. Although the animations have improved on the screen, it doesn't translate in the gifs as of yet."
ReplyDeleteI am puzzled. Are you trying to say that the improvement doesn't come through to the GIF files or the animation doesn't (sorry English is my native language and even then it can be ambiguous).
My copy of TSS supports saving animations to the GIF files. Your site as I view it in my browser (and I tried 2) does not appear to have animations.
I have attached an example I used recently for an article which does have the animation. I have TSS Version 2.5F
@Wasibi,
ReplyDeleteI still have to get my head around it. We need to see what the practical implications of this will be...
@Andrew,
You can get to the animated pictures (gifs) by clicking on the link below the pictures. If you click on the pictures themselves, you only get a static picture.
Don't apologies for your English. You question is valid. I mend that in the latest TSS (I use 2.6D) the update log noted an improvement in animations. That is true on the screen when you work inside TSS. But not so in the saved animated gifs.
Boats are still jumping from position 1 to 2 and 3, without intermittent fluent motion.
In Boat Scenario that is the case. I'm posting a Readers Q&A later today with such an animation. The trouble is that the file gets much bigger - and takes longer to download.
I can't show the animation on the blog. I'm posting the gifs on my server and by clicking on the link you can then see them after downloading.
Jos,
ReplyDeleteConsider ISAF case 41. Does the result there [that BL must give room for BW (as inside boat) to pass between her and A] conflict with the result of Q1 of this TRC? The situations are similar, perhaps?
@Wasabi (comment 4)
ReplyDeleteInitially the situation in question 1 is similar to Case 41. But then in position 2 Y is no longer an obstruction for X and it changes.
In case 41 the middle boat is in front and here the leeward on is.
That makes a difference.
We need two wings for this situation. To check both overlaps....
Who am I to argue, but I dont like answer 1. At posn 1, X is choosing to go to leeward and must give A room to do so. If a boat has room and then suddenly does not, that is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteBesides, at position 2, X suddenly becomes an obstruction to A and Y. If Y can give room to A, she must. If Y cannot give room, then Y is still an obstruction to A and X so that X should give room to A.
Wag
Sorry, mistake. A has to get an leeward overlap on Y before the last part of my argument applies. I still think either X has to give room to A when A gets the overlap on Y (note that she has been able to do so from the time the overlap began) or Y has to give room to A if she can.
ReplyDeleteWag
Question 1 - Strange that there is no mention of RRS16.1. Y in position 2 and 3 must be at some risk of breaking 16.1 against A. Even more so if it was windy. Imagine the boats are Lasers in 15 knots. Y’s manoeuvre even if she is initially moving slowly will need timed to perfection not to break 16.1
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1 - Strange that there is no mention of RRS16.1 in the RRTR Call. Y’s change of course in position 2 and 3 must be at some risk of breaking 16.1 against A? Even more so if it was windy. Imagine the boats are Lasers in 15 knots on a reach. Y’s manoeuvre even if she is initially moving slowly will surely need timed to perfection not to break 16.1?
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1 and Case 41 – so is it the case that if BL is has chosen to pass A to leeward then the moment BW herself is overlapped to leeward of A then what boat is the obstruction to the other boats changes? BL becomes the obstruction to BW and A as both are windward and overlapped, RRS11. A becomes outside boat relative to the obstruction which is now BL and it is A that and has to give BW room?
The animations might be better if:
ReplyDelete1. only one time period is colored, not the current and prior time periods.
2. the animation were slower or the advancement were user controlled.
Once an overlap exists, now that the defnition of obstruction is changed, the formerly clear astern boats are no longer governed by Rule 19. Rather, the formerly clear ahead boat and now windward boat is the boat burdened by 19 because the overlapped leeward most boat is the now obstruction toboth windard boats and Y owes A room to pass between Y and X. So, and this is the bizarre effect of the change to the def of obstruction, in the moment overlap is acquired, x no longer owes room to A for her to pass between X and Y. In the same moment, Y suddenly owes room to A to pass between Y and X. Was this the result intended?
ReplyDeleteJust thumbed through the team race call book. Take a look at Call B8 where the leeward outside boat is penalized for not giving middle leeward room to pass between outside and windward boat (an obstruction). Does anyone think that these TRC's can co-exist in harmony? Comments?
ReplyDeleteThese calls make perfect sense to me, so I'll try to explain how I resolve the issues raised.
ReplyDeleteOn Horsy's point about rule 16.1 restricting Y in Q1, I see Y having given plenty of room for A to keep clear : all that room to windward. This looks like the common move to prevent a boat from getting to leeward of me in the starting area.
On wasabi's point (comment 11) about sudden changes in responsibilities, I see this as part of the sudden right-of-way change when A gets leeward overlap on Y. Y must begin immediate efforts to keep clear (11 and 19.2b), but rules 15 and 16.1 and the 'unable' limitation of 19.2b make it clear that the RRS do not ask Y to do the impossible.
Team call B8 (luffing up to the starting line) needs an update to the new definition, but I think it will still penalize the Outside boat. If Outside held a steady course that denied Middle room, Outside broke 19.2 while the two approaching boats were both clear astern of the stationary boat; If Outside changed course after Middle overlapped the stationary boat, Outside broke 16.1. In today's Q1&Q3, by contrast, X did give room for A for as long as Y was an obstruction, and did not change course thereafter.
I like the definition change because it means we don't have to consider rule 19 so often. If it changes the game, then I admit that I wasn't capable of the mental effort required for the old game.
outside boat, inside boat and 19.2(B) only applicable when overlapped with the obstruction?
ReplyDeleteinside and outside now have a different meaning between 18.2(a) and 19.2(a)..
In 18.2a the outside boat, is determinable at the moment the zone is entered, and boats are overlapped.
In answer 2 it is stated that R19 applies, its stated that boats are overlapped, yet there now is no inside and outside even while "at" (or why does R19 apply?) the obstruction?
Imagine Y being a container a bit wider....
To theo's question, I think rule 19 'inside/outside' can become clear, and 19.2b become effective, before either boat overlaps the obstruction/boat. This Q&A Answer 2 says that rule 19.2b applies by the time A has overlapped obstruction Y, but it does not say only when there is overlap. Most obstructions don't have transoms with which to judge overlap.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that for rule 19 'inside/outside' must be interpreted for each unique obstruction situation. In contrast 'inside/outside' is known for rule 18 as soon as boats approaching a mark overlap each other (according to the rounding side in the sailing instructions, even if one or both boats are rounding the wrong side due to confusion or team tactics).
It seems that whenever 'inside/outside' are difficult to define, the boats can easily pass on opposite sides so we do not need rule 19. The former language clearly limited the rule to boats passing an obstruction 'on the same side.' We talked about this and your wider obstruction situation here.