Sunday, 14 September 2008

IDMMRD | 2 To Red or not to Red

Second call from the “Internationale Deutsche Meisterschaft der Frauen im Match Race” is about rule 19. Up until now everybody has voted for a Green flag in the first case, so this time I have made it a little more difficult.
In the diagram below we gave a penalty to Blue. That boat called for room to tack under rule 19.1
She was close hauled, signalled her intention twice with the appropriate hand signals and then tacked. After the second hail, Yellow signalled "you tack" by pointing at Blue and waving to windward. So far all proper and according to the rules.

Blue tacked and sailed a for one and a half boatlenght on port and then Yellow responded by luffing and a few seconds later by also tacking to port. During her luff she showed the Yankee flag.

Because Blue had enough room to either go behind Yellow or tacking back to starboard, Yellow fulfilled her obligation under rule 19 by giving Blue room to keep clear. Blue however broke rule 10 by not keeping clear.

Penalty on Blue.

Now I have two questions for you:
  1. Should we have given Blue a double penalty and if so, why?
  2. Should we have given Blue a red flag penalty and if so, why?


  1. Red Flag Blue, She broke 19.1 as she is not required to hail unless safety requires her to make a substantial course change. This was a tactical hail and not a safety hail.

  2. I think both boats obeyed rule 19.
    Blue had right to hail, because she had to make some course change to safely avoid the shore.

    At some point, rule 19.1b is over, and rule 10 comes back into effect.

    Blue broke rule 10, and in doing so gained control. Looking at C8.3, it is not clear if Blue can keep the advantage after the penalty. Breaking rule 10 might have been deliberate, or Blue may have believed rule 19.1 continued to suspend rule 10. So probably no double penalty.

    So C6.5b says Red flag Blue in this case

  3. I agree with the previous anonymous comment on giving the red flag but not the reason.

    In this case there were two rules broken. Firstly rule 19.1 as pointed out in the previous comment. Secondly rule 10 as explained in the post.

    The yellow boat never Y-flagged for the breach of the first rule (19.1). The only possibility for penalizing blue for the breach of that rule would be under C8.3, a umpire initiated penalty.

    Until after the tack of blue (#3) yellow never changed her course. Therefore I don't think that yellow is disadvantaged because of the breach of rule 19.1 of blue. So that rules out C8.3a. Then the only possibility to penalize blue would be C8.3b or C8.3c. Both of which I don't think would be appropriate in this case.

    Then there was the breach of rule 10. I think because of the breach blue acquired control of the game. In that case the red flag penalty would be appropriate.

  4. I agree with Ohara. I dont think the call was tactical. There was a safety issue and it would be silly to wait until the last moment. Blue needed to allow for yellow not hearing and having to hail again.

    Red flag, because as it is, blue could drop yellow behind her and might still be ahead after a turn.

  5. In my opinion rule 19 was not broken.

    Blue boat actually HAD a reason to call for room as a matter for safety - she fully complied with RRS 19 requirements.

    It is on yellow to decide how to respond. If yellow thinks there is enough room for blue, she can hail "you tack", which she did.
    Since there was enough room for blue to duck or luff after the tack, rule 19 ceases to be the subject any more.

    You could penalize blue under RRS 19 only if there was no safety issue.

    For the rest, we should consider RRS 10 and red flag would be appropriate, since blue gained control over RoW boat by infringing a rule.

    Was it deliberate? Until I'm sure about it, I'd red flag blue.

  6. When rule 19.1 applies, rule 10 does not apply. So, the question is: when is rule 19.1 done and when rule 10 in force comes. I do not know.

  7. No discussion on rule 19: it was on and the discussion on it finished after the tack of Blue.
    No discussion also on the Blue infringment of rule 10: it was proper.
    Red or double: i'm not sure if it was a deliberate infringment but, also, i'm sure Blue gained the control. I think Red is appropriate.

  8. I guess it depends on the boat and its manouverability and also the prevailing weather and wave conditions. If Blue could safely tack and bare away under yellow's transom then she didn't need to ask for 'Room to tack'.

    If tacking again under yellows bows could be accomplished and still avaoid the obstruction then again Blue did not need to ask for 'Room'.

    However if neither of the two options above were not open to Blue then she had every right to hail for 'Room', Yellow was right to give it.

    If either of the two options were possible then Blue was infringing rule 10 and rule 19.1.


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